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  1. #1
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    Default Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    It seems there's a controversy of uploading characters without permission and uploading bad characters like The Mind of Giygas on MUGEN Archive, so let me explain (I'm not the only one saying this).

    Some private characters like Muspellzheimr [Donald] have been uploaded without permission, and people like Anthimus and Gunggus keep uploading privates like Dark_Michael, and The Will of Fantasy without permission from the author. This is highly disrespectful, and if you keep continuing to do this, MUGEN Archive will be hated more in the MUGEN community, so please stop it. Also, please stop uploading bad creations such as MC Donald 1st Another and Donald Period -Brakion-. These are examples of bad characters by Matthew Persson, who's a bad creator that likes to create characters of Youtubers/Creators in order to troll to gain attention, so please stop it.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    I agree wholeheartedly. Posting characters without the author's permission will make this place disliked.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    I agree here, even characters like M-Reimu with a readme which states to not upload the character somewhere else are uploaded. It just shows how no one respects author requests.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Sorry but this is just a site to share MUGEN resources, we don't discriminate the content and anything can be uploaded as long as it's related with MUGEN. We have no reason to mind MUGEN black markets and I don't think MUGEN characters are meant to be traded or sold. Character "dealers" can hate us, there are tens of thousands normal users who are grateful to us and it more than makes up for it.

    Regarding authors permission, you can read our FAQ to understand our policy.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    So or so, it's disrespectful to repuload content that is meant to be private. It will lead to more and more people leaving Mugen. You could even do it like other communities like Mugen Free For All or even the Wiki, which lead to the authors webiste to dl the characters instead. Why would some people set rules, just for others to break them? It's a matter of trust that is broken. Imagine you trusting someone to not give someone else your work and he still does it, would you like that? There are simply chars that were never even supposed to become published in general and no one is forced to publish stuff if they have it, yet they do it anyway.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    You should seriously consider listening to Buraido, who is known well in the MUGEN Community, if you don't your site will be hated pretty much.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Respond here.
    Please stop distributing unauthorized distribution.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    wow ok first off mugen is none profit first and foremost

    secondly everyone uses everyone's content from everyone there a ton of people on mfg who uses sprites from many different games to make there characters or stage want to know where they get them from? big game companies such as capcom or namco which means you are using there hard earn time and work to make something that you want so if anyone has a issue it would be them

    so unless you hard drawn each sprite your self you dont have any reason to throw a tantrum and act like a child in a public forum

    btw most people dont care if you upload there content as long as you give credit to the person who did make it

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    How is respecting an authors request to not upload a character somewhere else childish? And yeah, people do take sprites etc. from big company characters but if they wouldn't have made those then 80% of Mugen would not even exist, since most characters are just edited versions of the original ones. There are authors that will stop releasing their chars if more and more people upload them somewhere else. I know it is sometimes a stupid rule, but i can understand them in a way, if they don't want it then they don't want. The thing is Okihaito's characters for example are public on his website, so why reupload them if he states not to do so? It's just stupid.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    So I'm gonna respond to several points made in this thread. For reference, I'm a content creator that keeps stuff private because I don't like it when people blatantly steal stuff from others. Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm perfectly okay with people re-using code or effects (most of the time), looking at it as a reference to get better and understand how it works, or even sometimes improving on it, I do this myself so me saying otherwise would make me a huge hypocrite, but the reason I've been private is because I honestly don't like people just claiming other people's work as their own but don't understand it in the slightest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
    We have no reason to mind MUGEN black markets and I don't think MUGEN characters are meant to be traded or sold. Character "dealers" can hate us, there are tens of thousands normal users who are grateful to us and it more than makes up for it.
    Yes, tens of thousands of normal users. As in: people who don't create anything and simply wish to have the shiny characters in their roster to play with. For content creators, this is a different issue. One of the reason why people keep their characters private is that people have tampered with them in the past in ways that the author may not want (there are several individuals that I can name but I won't). Some people don't even allow trade, so it isn't necessarily as much of a "black market" as you make it out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
    Regarding authors permission, you can read our FAQ to understand our policy.
    I don't really see a policy here. All I see is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Do I need a formal permission from the creator?
    You usually don't, as long as it is considered fair use. Creators themselves usually re-use code, sounds or graphics made by others, without needing any formal permission, as MUGEN is most of the time considered fair use.
    Which is essentially saying "oh go ahead and upload, no need to ask for permission." While most authors are relatively chill with this, characters that explicitly say in the readme, written in english to not reupload/reprint is a flat "no." I'm pretty sure that wouldn't quality as fair use, but I would need to check with one of my professors who knows more than I do about that before I say that for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Taker View Post
    wow ok first off mugen is none profit first and foremost
    I never understand why this point has to be brought up, honestly. Nobody's actually purchasing characters, are they? If people actually do put characters up for sale, that's just low.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Taker View Post
    secondly everyone uses everyone's content from everyone there a ton of people on mfg who uses sprites from many different games to make there characters or stage want to know where they get them from? big game companies such as capcom or namco which means you are using there hard earn time and work to make something that you want so if anyone has a issue it would be them
    While this is true, companies, in the end, have the right to actually take our characters down if they feel like this is a big issue. Most of the original creations using these sprites do give credit for these, true, but considering how MUGEN, probably well-known by now, is still alive and well making characters and edits around these, I'm pretty sure that said companies don't have much of a problem if any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Taker View Post
    so unless you hard drawn each sprite your self you dont have any reason to throw a tantrum and act like a child in a public forum
    We're not acting childish about this though? Unless you call giving our opinion about the situation as creators childish. If this was for some really ridiculous reason like "i wanna keep all the shINIES TO mYSELF DDDXXXX" then yes we would be very childish, but we aren't in this case, personally I don't care in the end if I get all of the fancy characters, I just want to create. Also some people kinda make their own content from scratch and still are against reuploading besides where they set it up initially.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul Taker View Post
    btw most people dont care if you upload there content as long as you give credit to the person who did make it
    I already addressed this point, but it's best not to assume that this is everyone. Since fair use has been brought up, think of it like actual copyright. Would you really want to violate that and potentially cause the author to leave the community because of a lack of trust?

    Now, I'm not saying posting characters here is a bad thing by any means, authors appreciate the publicity, but in general it's far better to link where the character is originally posted in that case rather than re-uploading it here when they are okay with it. Wouldn't simply posting the link to the character be better in both the authors' as well as the downloaders' case? I mean, if you link to the character on their blog, for instance, assuming they're ok with making said blog more public, they get more views on it, and the downloader can also see what other stuff they'd be interested in, right? Downloaders get their characters and maybe even more, authors get more reputation, the site gets more reputation for being a source of info for these and not just a hosting site, etc. Even linking directly to the cloud drive they're stored on instead of the blog would be better as it eliminates the whole "reuploading/reprinting" issue and the potential controversy that the current method causes. I mean, if the character used to be up, but is now offline, sure, go ahead and store it on the server after checking with the author.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    This site was created for to preserve mugen for eternity.
    We try to upload whatever it is, we don't upload it as ours.
    To share!!
    I know its controversial that we are using their created stuffs.!
    Ma kumwail anahne sawas, Peki rehi..
    And you are my only true friend. XD

    Welcome to my blog.
    https://bradsalo.blogspot.com/2017/1...tages.html?m=1

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    It's not about respect, it's about preserving.

    How many times authors and websites went off, without any warning?
    Can you see that if those creations were uploaded here, even without permission, the content would be preserved forever?

    That's what we are, and that's what we do... we are archivers.
    Nothing asks permission to go offline... so we don't ask permission to preserve.

    If you really want to talk about respect on this way, considering what I just explained, by our point of view, the answer is: Not only we don't care, but it's irrelevant.
    If you don't like, just don't use our website. You are not obliged on doing it. Freedom of choice is yours.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    If it is about preserving, then why other preserving sites like MFFA for example do it the way i just explained? Most people download the chars and have them preserved for others in the worst case.
    Having a request station for example, people can request if a character got taken down in the worst case and like this edits are preserved while no rule is broken.
    And if i would be a person to preserve stuff i would surely care, because not caring being irrelevant is complete nonsense. I could literally say the same and try to see yourself as the author, that not wants his creations to be seen uploaded elsewhere.

    But what you people do is simply taking characters and uploading them to "preserve".
    Authors don't make a readme for the reason of not reading so the people can say that, even if they read them "The author doesn't want me to upload his character? I will do it anyway".

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Quote Originally Posted by Left4Joker View Post
    If you don't like, just don't use our website. You are not obliged on doing it. Freedom of choice is yours.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Well alright, you either have no back arguments, which tells me that we are right, or you simply don't care as you said.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Quote Originally Posted by Left4Joker View Post
    It's not about respect, it's about preserving.

    How many times authors and websites went off, without any warning?
    Can you see that if those creations were uploaded here, even without permission, the content would be preserved forever?

    That's what we are, and that's what we do... we are archivers.
    Nothing asks permission to go offline... so we don't ask permission to preserve.
    Now, I understand the purpose of the site is preserving, when "Archive" is in the name of the site it's difficult not to, but there is a level of respect that needs to be had for the authors in question. Can't this issue be resolved when the site does eventually go down instead of doing it this way? At least one person would have downloaded the character, you know. Other people I've asked in groups that aren't even related to MUGEN in the slightest agree with me on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Left4Joker View Post
    If you don't like, just don't use our website. You are not obliged on doing it. Freedom of choice is yours.
    I've seen this excuse used several times before for stuff like fanfiction, games, whatever else and, to be honest, it's always either mocked or rendered as void. The site still here, is it not? Ignoring the problem or dismissing it like this doesn't solve it, raising awareness of it and looking at the issue at least gives it some of a chance to be solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Left4Joker View Post
    If you really want to talk about respect on this way, considering what I just explained, by our point of view, the answer is: Not only we don't care, but it's irrelevant.
    So, if I'm interpreting this point correctly, you don't care about the authors' wishes whatsoever. That is what you're saying, right? Let's look at this from a different context, then.
    A hot new game just came out. It plays really well, has amazing graphics, and is overall an amazing experience. The creators of the game distribute it freely to everyone else, note that I said freely in this case, but explicitly stated when you boot up the game in question not to post it anywhere else. Now, in another country, people are unable to access the game for some arbitrary reason. You love this game and you know the authors are nice people that have no ill intent, but also are going through a bit of a motivational struggle as to whether they should keep making games. Would you not respect the authors of the game's wishes, even though you like what they do and want them to continue, and publish it somewhere else? It sounds like that's what you'd do, would you not?

    One more thing I should say. If you don't have respect for us as authors for us to do as we please, we aren't really hurting anyone in our case except those that really want a however big MB file for their collections, why should we have any respect for you and make our characters public in the first place?

    EDIT: Corrected a quote since the post changed while I was typing

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Quote Originally Posted by Pikachuun View Post
    why should we have any respect for you and make our characters public in the first place?
    For no reason. You talk like that as if we wanted it. At least I don't care if you guys like us or not.
    And you can keep things private. It's your decision, not ours.
    We do what we do. That's all.

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    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Quote Originally Posted by Left4Joker View Post
    For no reason. You talk like that as if we wanted it. At least I don't care if you guys like us or not.
    You honestly should. If people who use characters don't give authors the respect for them, then do you really think that motivates the authors to keep going with their content? I'm not saying that authors should look up to the people who use their characters or anything but really, if the people that are going to be receiving your work don't like you, what's really the point of making it for them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Left4Joker View Post
    And you can keep things private. It's your decision, not ours.
    We do what we do. That's all.
    Technically, it's also sort of your decision as someone with a character in question to keep it private, judging by how several private characters have already been uploaded here or leaked by other ways. It's also your decision whether you'd ask for said character or not; some authors don't like putting a public link out because they're afraid of republishing, but are more than happy to just give the link to those that ask for it. But regardless, the point is it's not just our decision here, it's anyone who has said character's decision if the author has enough trust to give it out to a handful of people.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    Copying and sharing things does not deprive anyone of their original copy. Whether it's piracy of commercial products like Photoshop from torrent sites like The Pirate Bay (which I do whole-heartedly and without guilt) or simple sharing of minor stuff like MUGEN characters, there is nothing that is morally wrong going on, as "morally wrong" means "doing something that actively harms other people," and "hurt feelings" does not count as "harm." Please refer to image for a simple illustration of what I mean.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	piracy-is-not-theft.jpg 
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    Now you may still argue that it's "disrespectful" or their "wishes" or "rules" and whatever. Well if you think you need to "respect other people's wishes" and "respect other people's rules" no matter what they are, then I propose we make a new rule: to stop complaining about issue and no badmouthing mugenarchive outside of this website and on this website. See what I did there? If you really believe that you need to "respect" other people's wishes or feelings no matter what, then you have no choice but to follow this. If you're not going to follow this, then perhaps you now understand that "respecting others" and making everyone happy is not something anyone is obliged to do.

    If anyone is going to quit mugen because other people did stuff with their creations that they didn't want, then my response is: shoo, go away, we don't need you to do MUGEN. That is up to you and none of our business, so if anyone is going to do that, please tell them to leave MUGEN immediately because I'd personally rather have them go away right now.

    Also, considering how everyone complaining here are zombie accounts with little to no activity suddenly all coming here at once, I suspect that what we're dealing with is a small circlejerk of users who talked about this website in their circlejerk chat or whatever they use, so I think it'd be best not to consider their numbers to be any evidence of a majority. There is no controvery, just a circlejerk group coming here and raiding.

    In short, if you don't want your stuff spreading around, it's up to you and anyone you put in your trust, not anyone else. Once it's out there, it's out there, so if you don't want it out, then simply don't release it. Treat it like your nude photos or something.
    Last edited by 8934hg983h434; 17th April 2017 at 03:20.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Controversy of Uploading characters without permission on MUGEN Archive

    If the content exists and someone can obtain it, then it's not truly as private as you think. Unfortunately, if it makes its way onto MugenArchive you have to admit that you've either shared it with someone who should not have been trusted, or have distributed it in a way that requires "user based trust to not redistribute said content", all of which are not safe measures in keeping your creations from being re-uploaded on sites such as this one. You have to be careful with whom you trade. Often times the closest people to you are the ones uploading and trading your content. If you want to keep your creations private among friends, then only trade with your friends. Otherwise expect it to appear on MugenArchive one day.. With that said, I hope this only encourages authors who like to trade content to be more cautious with whom they trade, and to do more research on their potential partners before complaining about leaked creations. The fact that MugenArchive is even hosting your private content only shows that you were unable to make the proper choices when trading. Whatever the circumstances may be that led to said creations being uploaded, it was initially your judgement that caused them to be here. So do not blame MA, this site has only changed the game. Respect for authors is dead. All you can do to combat the situation is to make improvements on older creations and keep them private.

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