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Dizzy
7th July 2019, 09:38
We are currently considering implementing phone verification here at the MUGEN ARCHIVE.
This would only affect low rank members. (Lurkers and New Challengers)

It was implemented on our discord server in times when it was a very toxic and unsafe environment for our community and it has done wonders, our discord is now a very lively place.

Seeing how it helped our discord to recover from a desperate situation, we are now willing to implement this system on the main site too, hoping it will allow us to enforce our community rules more efficiently and keep bad actors away from our site once and for all.

If you have comments about this project, please let us know.

Plusle2019
7th July 2019, 09:47
Not exactly the best thing to do. It was alright on Discord kinda but it's kinda concerning if done here for a few reasons

1. The potential of a security breach stealing phone numbers. MUGENArchive I'd assume isn't as strong with security as Discord. Phone numbers compared to emails are extremely personal and could give out where they live.

2. It makes the site less accessible. I myself am not an owner of a phone with a phone number so if I were low ranked I would of never been able to get onto MA.

3. Phone numbers could get even more users to have issues signing in. People would try to get help on your Twitter or whatever trying to get in because they have no phone. If anything phone numbers are just a way to make this issue even worse. Already not very many people can figure out how to spell or who Dhalsim is.

4. Itd actually cause more drama. Moreso outside of MA.

I appreciate you helping this site become even safer but I believe phone number verificaiton would make things even harder for people to get on and enjoy MUGEN

xWagnerPlaguesx
7th July 2019, 10:52
I don't think this is a good idea, Dizzy.
MA already gets enough flack is it is, this is just adding fuel to the fire. It's just giving people more material to defame and trash MA.
People already hate the fact that you have to use their number for discord, they absolutely despise the Community Weekends, now if they have to put their phone number just to download, this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. It will be too much. It's escaping more and more from what MA's essence used to be.

Dizzy
7th July 2019, 14:53
I don't think this is a good idea, Dizzy.
MA already gets enough flack is it is, this is just adding fuel to the fire. It's just giving people more material to defame and trash MA.

I have yet to see any attack against the site that isn't flawed by double standards, if not plain lies, and this policy change will allow these people to put their actions where their mouth is since they will no longer be able to have alternate accounts here and bash the site while using it as their primary source for MUGEN content.


now if they have to put their phone number just to download, this will be the straw that breaks the camels back. It will be too much. It's escaping more and more from what MA's essence used to be.Could you clarify this part please? Phone verification is absolutely free, it just allows to block alternate accounts.


2. It makes the site less accessible. I myself am not an owner of a phone with a phone number so if I were low ranked I would of never been able to get onto MA.

And you couldn't use the phone of a family member ?

kater15
7th July 2019, 15:40
Phone number is something very private, implementing this will make the site even more bureaucratic and many will understand how invasion of privacy. Sorry, but for me, that's not a good idea.

bobbysharks
7th July 2019, 16:18
I have yet to see any attack against the site that isn't flawed by double standards, if not plain lies, and this policy change will allow these people to put their actions where their mouth is since they will no longer be able to have alternate accounts here and bash the site while using it as their primary source for MUGEN content.

Could you clarify this part please? Phone verification is absolutely free, it just allows to block alternate accounts.



And you couldn't use the phone of a family member ?


If Phone verification is being used to help block alternate accounts, couldn't people just start using the phone numbers of family members? In fact, couldn't a user just use the phone book to simply provide a different valid/working phone number for each account if that's what they wanted to do? The thought of that seems daunting but if someone is already willing to make multiple alternate accounts they probably wouldn't hesitate to do that either.

I own a cordless house phone with a base/charger. Never owned a smart phone, thirty two years old and used a house phone /land line the whole time. As for this issue, how about we compile a list of the Pro's and a list of the Con's and compare them side by side, and how the Pro's stack up against the Con's.

xWagnerPlaguesx
7th July 2019, 16:46
Could you clarify this part please? Phone verification is absolutely free, it just allows to block alternate accounts.

It might be free but:
1: Not everybody owns a phone
2: not everybody feels comfortable with having to put their phone number into a website. Even for discord i haven't done this.
3: It's making an already challenging website even more challenging just to download a file
You also said that this will prevent people from creating duplicate accounts, i dont think so. Maybe temporarily but people will find a way to get around it.

Dizzy
7th July 2019, 18:23
Phone number is something very private, implementing this will make the site even more bureaucratic and many will understand how invasion of privacy. Sorry, but for me, that's not a good idea.I can understand this concern but we would use a third party plugin to send the SMS and this would be a paid service (MUGEN ARCHIVE would pay for that service), so we'll make sure our privacy policies are NOT being violated and the phone numbers aren't being sold to advertisement companies.

While this may appear a bit extreme it's nowhere as extreme as MUGEN politicians. Again I would like to stress this has saved our discord server from a desperate situation. We were being raided daily by a few individuals who had absolutely nothing else to do, seeing how they were making dozens of accounts daily to brigade our server. We lost a number of mentally vulnerable users who got turned rogue by their drama, we had a coup d'etat. It really seemed like our server would never go anywhere, and now it is more healthy and lively than ever, free of petty politicians and their power struggle. And this is all thanks to phone verification.


If Phone verification is being used to help block alternate accounts, couldn't people just start using the phone numbers of family members?Of course but it's infinitely harder to have access to multiple phone numbers than multiple email addresses. Right now all it takes to make a duplicate account is to make another email address, which is trivial.


It's making an already challenging websiteI am very confused. :huh: Can you explain how the site is challenging right now when all it takes is a free account? Also can you detail these attacks against the site? Is any of them legitimate or do you mean the usual attacks from the usual MUGEN politicians? Do you think we should care about the later?

Plusle2019
7th July 2019, 18:39
And you couldn't use the phone of a family member ?


I don't know about other parents but the moment my mom would find out a site that is from something they don't know about has phone verification she gets pretty fishy about it.





I think instead of a phone verification here's what I think you can do to get rid of alts:
You can Block any ip from creating alt accounts after they register from creating an account, and just immediately block VPNs from creating an account all together. I think there might be a service that would block VPN and fake Ips. NOw I know you'd be saying all it takes is to make a duplicate ip address but that costs lots of money so if the troll is rich then idk.

Dizzy
9th July 2019, 23:27
I don't know about other parents but the moment my mom would find out a site that is from something they don't know about has phone verification she gets pretty fishy about it.





I think instead of a phone verification here's what I think you can do to get rid of alts:
You can Block any ip from creating alt accounts after they register from creating an account, and just immediately block VPNs from creating an account all together. I think there might be a service that would block VPN and fake Ips. NOw I know you'd be saying all it takes is to make a duplicate ip address but that costs lots of money so if the troll is rich then idk.

Great feedback and suggestions. :smile: This is exactly what I'm looking for, very practical issues being conveyed to make sure this change will not affect legitimate users.

For the SMS, point noted, we'll make sure they only include a verification code, and no info regarding the site.

And regarding a VPN/proxy filter, we have already tried that and it turned out disastrous as it has bugged even some of the staff members. From what I understand it is almost impossible to differentiate a private proxy from a public proxy. Only the latter are a problem and we don't want to block legitimate users using a private/paid proxy.
We don't want to use any large IP address filter either as it would affect the page loading speed significantly and again we don't want to do anything that would affect the experience of legitimate users.

Please keep the constructive feedback coming, we want to hear about practical issues that our regular members may have with this. Is there any reason why you would be completely unable to receive a verification SMS? Thank you.

FightinDude
15th July 2019, 00:28
Hi,

I'm personally against phone verification. I am uncomfortable with providing discord with my phone number, so I definitely would be against it's implementation on this site.

Mariana Coronado
16th July 2019, 22:07
I don't like the idea too. Phone number is important in my privacy.

Plusle2019
16th July 2019, 22:29
fun fact:

Every social media site would force a phone number into you if you are a troll or spammer or "robot"

Dizzy
17th July 2019, 16:18
Hi,

I'm personally against phone verification. I am uncomfortable with providing discord with my phone number, so I definitely would be against it's implementation on this site.Please do provide further details.


I don't like the idea too. Phone number is important in my privacy.Phone numbers will not be disclosed to outside parties, so why do you feel concerned about it?

Again we expect concrete feedback, not just vague feelings of uneasiness. Again we are doing this to protect our community from professional trolls and spammers so any vague disagreement will not hold any weight in our final decision.

Baconator2558
6th April 2020, 04:00
Very much against this idea. It feels like an invasion of privacy and discriminatory against users that don't have phones.